<html><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">On Jun 11, 2010, at 4:26 AM, Ryan Schmidt <<a href="mailto:ryandesign@macports.org">ryandesign@macports.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><span>Yes, Apple doesn't make it terribly easy to find the latest version of Xcode for prior versions of Mac OS X. To get Xcode 3.1.4:</span><br><span></span><br><span>Go to <a href="http://connect.apple.com/" x-apple-data-detectors="true"><a href="http://connect.apple.com/">http://connect.apple.com/</a></a></span></blockquote><br><div></div><div>I was in an IRC chat the other day, and the topic of package managers came up. Being a heavy Linux crowd, they have a multitude of options wheras on the Mac we have Fink and MacPorts.</div><div><br></div><div>I sidelined and listened. The main gripe; there is no compiler present by default in Mac OS X so you must give up personal data to get Dev Tools from Apple. </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure if this is 100% true. I know you get additional tools from a Dev Tools installation, but there may be a compiler in the base OS X install; I've never looked, I always:</div><div><br></div><div> 1) install OS</div><div> 2) install Dev Tools </div><div> 3) Software Update </div><div> 4) Install MacPorts. </div><div><br></div><div>90% or better of what's in /Developer are docs, examples, test apps, profile apps, debugger, tools... stuff. </div><div><br></div><div>What is it MacPorts needs at a bare minimum to meet it's requirement of "Needs Apples Developer Tools"? </div><div><br></div><div>How much of /Developer could one potentially omit and still build apps with or without MacPorts? Can I just keep all the bins and includes and be successful?</div><div><br></div><div>I'm asking because I wonder how sucessfully MacPorts built apps would also build with the pure OSS versions of I guess gcc and it's other toolchain bits. </div><div><br></div><div>I suspect Apple may have modified and customized this toolchain, and it simply wouldn't work. </div><div><br></div><div>Would it be possible at all to have MacPorts remove it's requirement for Apples Developer Tools and have MacPorts perform that installation? This seems a really cool way to get people up and running sans a ton of resistance.<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656); "></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.285156); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.21875); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.21875);"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.289062); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.222656); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.222656); ">I wonder how much of this is technical hurdles versus legal licence agreements hurdles attached to the download from Apple. </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.285156); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.21875); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.21875);"><br></span></div><div>I personally don't find it a huge burden to register and download /Developer. I even find the software quite nice, and one heck of a solid development toolkit. Everything you need to build something of the scope of PhotoShop, iMovie, iTunes, whatever you imagine. </div><div><br></div><div>I'll go out on a limb, prepared for the bashing... I am yet to see anything on Windows or Linux or other *Nix's that has the polish of X-Code. Add to that it spits out UB's, mobile, desktop, cli, etc, and it's a very polished kit, not to be overshadowed by the technical power ouside "teh pretty"<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">. And free of cost with the exception of registration cost.</span></div><div><br></div><div>The other side of the coin is Apple could easily install /Developer on all machines. Yet in the same way some distros are specific to being lean, Apple is choosing to omit software 99% of users won't need, and will add potential confusion. </div><div><br></div><div>If /Developer were installed on all Macs, the visibility bit was set to none on the directory, and 'chmod -x /Developer', users would not even know. A set of very simple commands could +x and setfile; poof, dev tools installed, MacPorts could be the initiator of this. A checkbox in the Software Update Preference Pane coukd even toghle those two settings Pipe dreaming I know. </div><div><br></div><div>Is it completely against the rules to direct link to the dev tools installer and have MacPorts perform this install? Maybe Apple has the download locked inside the walled login/pass garden. </div><div><br></div><div>I was just wondering, if there is any way to have MacPorts be fully self contained. The ability to decide you want MAMP, download a tiny installer, run 'sudo port install mamp-stuff', and be done. This could be very powerful for good word of mouth of a great experience. </div><div><br></div><div>On Linux they were stating in IRC:</div><div> sudo apt-get whatever</div><div><br></div><div>On Mac: ( how I do it at least )</div><div> Reg/login with <a href="http://apple.com"><a href="http://apple.com">apple.com</a></a></div><div> Download Developer Tools</div><div> Software Update</div><div> Install MacPorts</div><div> Update MacPorts</div><div> sudo port install whatever</div><div><br></div><div>It would be really cool to have parity on those two cases. </div><div><br></div><div>This question is one of pure curiosity with regards to specifically what's in /Developer. With so much of it being based on OSS, that to me implies there has to be ways to get it all, and bypass registration. </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not at all asking that this idea be persued, but it's something I've wanted to understand for a while.</div><div><br></div><div>P.S. Why doesn't a new first time install of MacPorts perform 'selfupdate' for the user? Or does it and I'm not aware of this already happening?</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks porters. </div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.226562); ">Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ * (Sent from a mobile device) </span> </div></body></html>