Too hard to get Dev tools [was Re: Problem with macports install, any help greatly appreciated]
talklists at newgeo.com
Fri Jun 11 09:58:01 PDT 2010
On Jun 11, 2010, at 4:26 AM, Ryan Schmidt <ryandesign at macports.org>
> Yes, Apple doesn't make it terribly easy to find the latest version
> of Xcode for prior versions of Mac OS X. To get Xcode 3.1.4:
> Go to http://connect.apple.com/
I was in an IRC chat the other day, and the topic of package managers
came up. Being a heavy Linux crowd, they have a multitude of options
wheras on the Mac we have Fink and MacPorts.
I sidelined and listened. The main gripe; there is no compiler present
by default in Mac OS X so you must give up personal data to get Dev
Tools from Apple.
I'm not sure if this is 100% true. I know you get additional tools
from a Dev Tools installation, but there may be a compiler in the base
OS X install; I've never looked, I always:
1) install OS
2) install Dev Tools
3) Software Update
4) Install MacPorts.
90% or better of what's in /Developer are docs, examples, test apps,
profile apps, debugger, tools... stuff.
What is it MacPorts needs at a bare minimum to meet it's requirement
of "Needs Apples Developer Tools"?
How much of /Developer could one potentially omit and still build apps
with or without MacPorts? Can I just keep all the bins and includes
and be successful?
I'm asking because I wonder how sucessfully MacPorts built apps would
also build with the pure OSS versions of I guess gcc and it's other
I suspect Apple may have modified and customized this toolchain, and
it simply wouldn't work.
Would it be possible at all to have MacPorts remove it's requirement
for Apples Developer Tools and have MacPorts perform that
installation? This seems a really cool way to get people up and
running sans a ton of resistance.
I wonder how much of this is technical hurdles versus legal licence
agreements hurdles attached to the download from Apple.
I personally don't find it a huge burden to register and download /
Developer. I even find the software quite nice, and one heck of a
solid development toolkit. Everything you need to build something of
the scope of PhotoShop, iMovie, iTunes, whatever you imagine.
I'll go out on a limb, prepared for the bashing... I am yet to see
anything on Windows or Linux or other *Nix's that has the polish of X-
Code. Add to that it spits out UB's, mobile, desktop, cli, etc, and
it's a very polished kit, not to be overshadowed by the technical
power ouside "teh pretty". And free of cost with the exception of
The other side of the coin is Apple could easily install /Developer on
all machines. Yet in the same way some distros are specific to being
lean, Apple is choosing to omit software 99% of users won't need, and
will add potential confusion.
If /Developer were installed on all Macs, the visibility bit was set
to none on the directory, and 'chmod -x /Developer', users would not
even know. A set of very simple commands could +x and setfile; poof,
dev tools installed, MacPorts could be the initiator of this. A
checkbox in the Software Update Preference Pane coukd even toghle
those two settings Pipe dreaming I know.
Is it completely against the rules to direct link to the dev tools
installer and have MacPorts perform this install? Maybe Apple has the
download locked inside the walled login/pass garden.
I was just wondering, if there is any way to have MacPorts be fully
self contained. The ability to decide you want MAMP, download a tiny
installer, run 'sudo port install mamp-stuff', and be done. This could
be very powerful for good word of mouth of a great experience.
On Linux they were stating in IRC:
sudo apt-get whatever
On Mac: ( how I do it at least )
Reg/login with apple.com
Download Developer Tools
sudo port install whatever
It would be really cool to have parity on those two cases.
This question is one of pure curiosity with regards to specifically
what's in /Developer. With so much of it being based on OSS, that to
me implies there has to be ways to get it all, and bypass registration.
I'm not at all asking that this idea be persued, but it's something
I've wanted to understand for a while.
P.S. Why doesn't a new first time install of MacPorts perform
'selfupdate' for the user? Or does it and I'm not aware of this
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
(Sent from a mobile device)
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